It is a fact that many women, by nature, are attracted to men who are strong and powerful. Often it has been found that women may intellectually state that they are attracted to men who are open with their feelings. But their inner heart speaks otherwise. Many women are attracted to powerful men, who behave like men, and who can protect them, because often they are hasselled.

It is just an observation. Otherwise, why do some women go after bad boys?

Perhaps the problem is the lack of strong men in today’s society, who are also at the same time pure Vaishnavas. Perhaps if there were more devotees who were perceived by society as actually spiritually advanced and saintly, ISKCON, and the original efforts of Srila Prabhupada would be more appreciated. Instead right now what is mostly seen seems to be promises for something in the future.

Srila Prabhupada stated that we should not accept Post-dated Checks. He specifically stated this in relationship to the promises of the scientists, that in the future they could create life. But we can also use the same analogy in relationship to ISKCON devotees, and especially leadership, when they promise that in the future they will become spiritually advanced, but now just give them money.

The problem is many devotees use Bhakti-yoga ISKCON-style as a way to get over in life. As a way to not have to work, and be maintained by everyone else who has to work to make it,while at the same time pretending to be devotees, or worse sanyasis.

This is the greatest hypocracy. The problem with Bhakti-yoga is it is so easy to cheat. Anyone can say they are chanting 16 rounds or following the 4 regulative principles, as an example, but how would anyone really know for sure? It is totally an honor system.

I think that even as gospel according to time, place and circumstances, certain “gospels” are just untruth, period. I think that even if Prabhupada were present before us right now and repeated these things, affirming again that they do indeed apply under certain circumstances, then the right thing for any of us to do would be to simply inform him respectfully that such teaching really isn’t correct. And will never be. That is, the truth stands on its own: Abuse of other jivas based on bodily designation is never, under any circumstances, conducive for spiritual upliftment, never justified. And if a guru tries to change this fact, the onus should be on him. But this does not mean that Prabhupada was wrong in every one of his insights. He was overall a lofty spiritual teacher.

Misogyny seems to be at the core of human misidentity throughout history (for some reason). Men seem to be afraid of women sexuality while women seem to fear men’s brute force. In this respect, Prabhupada seemed to be affected by these traits and took them to be spiritual insights. He made a mistake, clearly.

A big example is how his closer female disciples always felt very loved and cared for by him. But his brahmacaris felt that he was very anti-woman.

“The unfortunate part is that he brought with him a lot of cultural baggage that did not and does not fit well in the West. ”

I agree with you Devak that this is unfortunate.

But I have always added (to friends, family and whomever wants to hear it) that I think this mentality is unfortunate in the West as well as in India were it was brought from. I mean, there really isn’t a place in the entire world where such mentality “fits well”. Misogyny, casteism, racism, these things better wiped off the face of the universe. They are perpetual anarthas bouncing around in people’s hearts, and for Prabhupada to advocate this mentality was pretty contradictory of him: He taught us about a sublime state of being, of compassion to one another and celebration of ideal love. But at the same time he got himself mixed up with very rustic social prejudices. So for us, the solution seems to simply be that we may accept his good teachings and reject the negative ones. In exposing where he made mistakes while still accepting where he was in line with the ideal, we can still honor the main thrust of his mission, becoming thus really loyal to him as opposed to the impasse of trying to justify the unjustifiable.

It is a good thing that he came to America. The unfortunate part is that he brought with him a lot of cultural baggage that did not and does not fit well in the West. The idea that he offered an alternative to drugs is a great and lasting credit to him.

He also was a bit ego driven as he loved to sit in the glare of the spotlight. He was very impressed by the manner in which Gandhi was admired and he wanted that for himself. He even stated this publicly on a morning walk by the river in India.

A truely great man does not need the cheers of the crowd. His actions speak for themselves.

A more correct assessment needs to be made.

Devak

In my mind I observed that Srila Prabhupada appeared to be playing his gong off-key and out of sinc with the kirtan, as he sat on his Vyasasana. I thought to myself “he isn’t playing right”. I don’t really know if he was or not, I was pretty far away from what was happening, and my eyesight isn’t that great. I just thought that way.

Suddenly he stopped playing his gong, looked up at me in the balcony, and our eyes met. He put his gong down and continued chanting in the kirtan. After some time he again picked up his gong and continued to play and chant with the devotees.

I don’t understand everything Srila Prabhupada taught. I can’t follow everything either. There are so many things I can’t do, and am unwilling to do.

I am sorry for all the ways we, as older devotees, failed you and how we let everyone down. The call of Srila Prabhupada was for all of us to become “Christlike”. It is a great idea on paper, but who can give up every form of pleasure, in return for the hope that someday the might make some spiritual advancement, and someday, with no promises or guarantees, feel some spiritual joy and happiness.

We are really all like children. We have heard the rules, but we want to see what we can still hold on to and not let go.

I try to appreciate what Srila Prabhupada gave me and what I have received through accepting and following Krishna Consciousness. One thing I appreciate that Srila Prabhupada taught was how every living entity has a soul, is conscious and can feel pain. He taught us to feel great compasion for all living entities. He taught us to offer respect even to the bugs, and to be compassionate and kind to everything. That was a really great teaching for me.

I can understand why food needs to be offered. It is difficult for me to eat fruit, without thinking how it is a baby just trying to survive in the world. He totally changed my viewpoint in how I live in the world.

How often is scripture used to push forgiveness. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s bad to forgive or anything like that. But I’ve had so many quotes thrown at me about how I should forgive abusers. (And more specifically just act like they’ve never done anything wrong.)

In the 11th chapter of BG, Arjuna sees in Krsna’s Universal Form, many warriors being devoured and crushed between His teeth. Among these warriors is Bhismadeva. Now, to me this is pretty shocking, He’s such a great devotee and one of the 12 mahajanas.
It’s been a while since I read this, so I’m remembering the best I can.
It is explained that for the offense of remaining silent when Draupadi was insulted, He will be killed. Not that he ordered or engaged in the insult. But he did nothing to stop it. Therefore he had to be killed. I don’t recall Krsna telling Draupadi to “just forgive” or anything like that.
Anyway, I just thought that was interesting and wanted to share.
Hari bol!

Please know that my intent is not to “criticize” Prabhupada. Rather, my intent is to take an honest, objective look at the sordid issues of child abuse and misogyny in ISKCON’s dark and troubled history, and to acknowledge the many ways in which Prabhupada himself laid the foundation for these things. Unless and until we all come to terms with that reality, however painful it may be for us to do so, we will never be able to move forward in a healthy, functional way.